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The Ambassador of Russia to the Netherlands: “We Hope to Overcome All the Difficulties and Return to Full-Scale Cooperation”

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The Ambassador of Russia to the Netherlands: “We Hope to Overcome All the Difficulties and Return to Full-Scale Cooperation”

21.03.2017

The Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Russian Federation to the Kingdom of the Netherlands Alexander Shulgin speaks with a journalist of Russkiy Mir about the present and the future of the bilateral Russian-Dutch relations, the “Nexit”, the Russian hackers and the compatriots in the Netherlands.

- Mr. Shulgin, you arrived to the Netherlands at a period that was not easy for the Russian-Dutch relations. Introduction of the sanctions, accusations of involvement into the crash of the Malaysian aircraft. What tasks did you have at that time?

- The main task for any ambassador is to promote the development of relations in all the areas: political, cultural and economic. It is with this ambition that I came here, to the Netherlands, eighteen months ago. Indeed the time was, and remains, difficult.

After the coup d’état in Ukraine, the reunion of the Crimea and Sevastopol with Russia as the outcome of the nationwide referendum there, relations between Russia, the US and Europe were aggravated. Then there was the tragedy with the Malaysian “Boeing”. As the result, sanctions emerged and began to accumulate. The Dutch joined this policy and, consequently, our relations have ended up at a low point for the first time after many and many years of intense cooperation.

Quite recently the Netherlands have been our second trading partner in the world after China. In 2012 our turnover was 82.7 billion US dollars and the cumulative Dutch investments in Russia by 2013 amounted to 68.1 billion US dollars. The Netherlands ranked second among the foreign investors. Now we have a turnover that has fallen down to almost a half of the previous amount. Our political relations are curtailed and remain virtually at a minimal level, due to the general position of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands, which is following the corresponding decisions of the EU. The more is the pity taking into account that 2013 was indeed a year of fantastic achievements – 300 various cultural events were organised within the Year of Russia in the Netherlands and the Year of the Netherlands in Russia.

Nevertheless, the interest of the local business community to cooperate with Russia remains. A noteworthy fact: none of the large Dutch companies operating in the Russian market are going to leave it, there is an evident interest in looking for new approaches to using the advantages of the cooperation with Russia. We also continue our cooperation in the area of culture. In short, we hope that we will be able to overcome all the difficulties and return to full-scale cooperation.


Alexander Shulgin and his wife meet guests at the reception in honor of the Diplomat's Day

- During the previous year the position of Russia in the world changed. Did it change your tasks?

- Yes, new details emerge. Our country has withstood the challenges related to the anti-Russian sanctions. Of course, the unfavourable international situation had a significant influence on our economy: the downfall in the hydrocarbon prices and in the prices of our other traditionally exported goods. But now, little by little, the situation is turning back to normal. The downfall of our GDP has been almost offset, there is even a little growth in industry. Our partners from the EU made us respond to their sanctions, in particular, by developing the import substitution. We are pleased to have achievements in the agroindustrial area. The growth of agricultural production in Russia was about 4% last year. Russia is confidently winning ground at the global grain market. We are returning to the situation when Russia was considered a granary of all the Europe. Our possible niche is the manufacturing of environmentally friendly products.

There have been positive developments in the bilateral relations as well. I have recently participated in a meeting with representatives of the business circles, who work at the Russian direction. By the way, I was not the only speaker; there was also my colleague, the Ambassador of the Netherlands to Russia H.E. R.Jones-Bos. Of course, political disagreements between our countries have not gone anywhere but we have the common understanding that we need to do something, to look for opportunities to sustain the necessary economic ties and develop decentralised cooperation.

Evidently, at this stage one cannot expect any radical improvement of bilateral political cooperation. But even in the most difficult times our Ministers of Foreign Affairs met on the margins of various international events.

Inter-parliamentary diplomacy has significant potential. I have recently had a meeting with MPs of the Second Chamber of the States General. We remembered the fact that in 1970s Dutch MPs had played an important role in the search of common understanding on the issue of short and medium range missiles between the East and the West. In 2008 there was a very important visit of the Dutch parliamentary delegation along the hot tracks of the tragic events in the Caucasus, I am referring to the Georgian aggression. At that time we managed to have a good discussion. And now there is an understanding that we could establish at least informal inter-parliamentary contacts in order to prepare the ground for the increase in our cooperation. Anyway, we will not be found waiting. As soon as we understand that our partners are ready to resume the interaction, we will work alongside them.

- In April 2016 a referendum was held in the Netherlands on the ratification of the EU-Ukraine Association Agreement, where the citizens of the country voted against. Has it had any influence on the relations between Russia and the Netherlands?

- Our premise has been that the referendum is a purely internal affair of the Netherlands, and we do not interfere in domestic affairs of foreign states. We had no contacts whatsoever with the organisers of the referendum. During the information campaign in the run-up to the referendum, voices were repeatedly heard about the interference of Russia but we considered them to be the side effects of the internal political situation.

The referendum was held, with well-known results. The question was: what to do next. And now we are witnessing the Government of the Netherlands trying to get the ratification of the Association Agreement through the Parliament. That is being done due to the fact that the EU member states have adopted a statement where conditions allegedly taking into account the results of the referendum are enshrined: the agreement shall not be considered a first step to Ukraine’s membership in the EU, it shall not result in rendering military assistance, etc. Now when there is such a legally binding, as the Dutch partners would like to hope, statement by the EU, one can carry on with the ratification.

It is unfortunate that at the moment the main reason given by the Dutch government in favour of the ratification of the agreement by the Parliament of the Netherlands is a mythical threat from Russia. We believe it may be explained by some features of the domestic political situation – elections are to be held soon in the Netherlands. Usually such is the pre-election rhetoric. Nevertheless, the situation is regrettable; we would like our partners to take a more unbiased view of things.

- Many expect the “Nexit” after the “Brexit”. How probable do you think is the exit of the Netherlands from the EU and what could be its consequences for Russia and the Netherlands?

- The “Nexit” is a matter of theory, not practice. As far as one can tell, the majority of political parties and business representatives still have great expectations of the continuation of the EU membership. Unlike Great Britain, the Netherlands is one of the founders of the European Economic Community. Yes, eurosceptic attitudes exist here as well. And they are surfacing now in the run-up to the parliamentary elections. But let us wait for the results – they will serve as a “barometer” for measuring such attitudes.

When the “Nexit” is discussed, an idea is expressed that Russia is supposed to be interested in weakening the EU. Quite the opposite, we have always been saying that our country is interested in the strong and independent European Union. After all, it is our main trading partner (only a few years ago, if I am not mistaken in 2011-2013, our annual turnover amounted to about 400 billion US dollars), it is a neighbour next to which we are to live further on.

Contrary to the intentions attributed to us, we are interested in the existence of the EU and in the development of good relations with it. But at the same time we would like, and we are not hiding it, the EU member states to act independently and place their own interests, the interests of the European Union, on top, and not to yield to persuasion by any third countries.

- How would you comment on the series of publications in the local press with the reference to the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Netherlands Bert Koenders that there are serious concerns about the possible interference of Russia in the parliamentary elections, the trace of Russian hackers, etc.?

- It all began with the accusations of the interference by the Russian hackers into the US election campaign but no one has ever given any evidence that they were really Russian hackers. Besides, is it really important who hacked the server of the Democratic Party? The content that was revealed – that is what is more important. And those were nasty things that were revealed. Well, instead of at least expressing regret some circles tried to put blame on Russia, as if it had been pulling the strings and interfering into the elections in the US. Now there are speculations that Russia will influence the forthcoming elections in the Netherlands, France and Germany. There has recently appeared a message that Russian hackers, you see, have been in full swing hacking the correspondence of one of the candidates at the presidential elections in France.

By the way, an interesting image has been published, if I am not mistaken, on the Twitter account of our Embassy in the UK. A woman is driving and is being stopped by a police officer: “Madam, you have been significantly overspeeding”. And the lady answers: “I am sorry, officer, but it is not my fault! The Russian hackers have broken into my speedometer!”.

Naturally, we cannot agree with such accusations. There is no Russian “trace” at all. We respect the will of the Dutch people, we respect the will of the French people and we will respect the will of the German people. It is their sovereign matter and no Russian hackers are interfering in such processes.

- After the heinous murder of the Russian Ambassador to Turkey, senator Alexey Pushkov said that in order to prevent such tragedies in future the appearances of Russian diplomats in public should be reduced to a minimum. Do you agree?

- A terrible tragedy happened. I got to know Ambassador A.Karlov in person. He was a good friend, a brilliant professional. We all bewail his tragic death. After it happened, the Russian authorities put forward a topic of enhancing safety and security of the Russian missions abroad, we always warn our staff and their families that they must be vigilant and take all the necessary precautions.

But at the same time we cannot just sit in an Embassy like in a besieged fortress. There are sometimes situations when the word of mouth is important, when one cannot send a junior diplomat instead oneself, when the audience is expecting to communicate with the head of a diplomatic mission. Besides, we must not create an impression that we are scared and hiding behind someone’s back. And above all, it is our duty to fulfil our daily diplomatic work.

- It is well known, what image of Russia is being cultivated in the western media. There has recently been your meeting with journalists of the most influential Dutch media. What are your feelings about that meeting?

- The image of Russia that is being formed here is mostly negative. Virtually all the sins are being attributed to us.

Basically, you know, double standards are astounding. Take Aleppo – so many allegations have been brought against Russia: barbaric bombings, shelling of hospitals and other civilian structures. And at the same time in the area of Mosul, where there is a US led operation ongoing, it is as if the press simply forgets about the existing victims and serious problems. When they speak about the malicious Russian hackers, it never comes to anyone’s mind to remember that there exists another side which had not just been unfoundedly accused but literally caught in the tapping of no less than the personal telephones of the French President and the German Chancellor by its special services.

Generally speaking, there is an evident desire to launch a real information war against Russia, particularly under the pretext that the information component is a most important part of the “hybrid” war, which Russia is allegedly waging. They point a finger on the “Russia Today”, on the “Sputnik” agency, they speak about developing means to counter the information aggression from Russia, they gather some strange money, create some incomprehensible platforms. It is of course very sad.

We would like to hope that we will be able to achieve a more balanced view of things by our colleagues. This was the very purpose of my meeting with the local journalists. We had a very frank and practical conversation. We discussed topical issues including the Ukrainian crisis. For example, I had to explain why it is completely wrong to link the non-implementation of the Minsk Agreements with the position of Russia. Now when there has been another aggravation of the situation (in Donbass – ed.) they also say: it is Russia. But we have a different understanding. This way Kiev simply wants to get money, to win the sympathy of the new American administration, to finally obtain the shipments of lethal weapons.

Briefly speaking, we tried to explain our views on this most important issue. I do not know whether the journalists have heard us but we will carry on with our cooperation with the press.

- What can you say about the Russian diaspora in the Netherlands? Are there any data about its quantity and composition?

- We rank eight among the diasporas living in the Netherlands. If we speak about all the immigrants from the former Soviet republics, the number will be about 70-80 thousand. There are even statistics about the spread of our compatriots on the Dutch territory. 25% live in Amsterdam, 20% live in Rotterdam and the same amount in the Hague, 15% live in the Utrecht area and 20% more are divided among other cities. People lean toward either industrial hubs or educational centres. For example, large universities are located in Leiden, Utrecht, Delft and Maastricht, and so there are traditionally a lot of our students, interns, teachers. There are many of our highly skilled professionals in Eindhoven, which is an industrial hub with high-tech production. Professionals in the area of space work in Noordwijk aan Zee, where the headquarters for the European Space Research and Technology Centre of the European Space Agency is located. As far as we understand, the majority of our compatriots came here in the difficult 1990s. People migrated primarily due to economic causes.

I would say that the “magnets” that attract the diaspora are the Russian orthodox churches in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and the Hague.

We have 18 Russian weekend schools in different cities of the country, where 1700 children learn.

- By the way, the President of Russia signed the “Russian School” programme, how is it implemented in the Netherlands?

- At the moment the implementation mechanism for the concept is being developed. This is a very important matter for the Netherlands, concerning a large number of the Russian weekend schools. It is noteworthy that among the students there are not only children from mixed families, where wives are from Russia and husbands are from the Netherlands, but also from purely Dutch families that send their children there in order to get them acquainted with the Russian language and culture. That is another very important indicator of the success of such schools. I hope that when the concept implementation mechanism is developed, we will be active participants in this work.

But even now we are already helping schools. We support organisation of school performances, especially on the eve of the New Year holidays. We help to organise exhibitions and concerts. I met with the teachers of all the schools, the meeting was in Amsterdam. The topic of schools was also raised at the X Conference of the NCRC (the Dutch Council of the Russian Compatriots – ed.). There still are unsolved problems – with students, with curricula and with the methodological assistance. We keep them in our view. We will look for the opportunities to satisfy the requirements of the teachers of our Russian schools.

- How is work with the compatriots set in general and how can you evaluate their role in developing the relations between our countries?

We have a fundamental document – the Law “On the State Policy of the Russian Federation towards Compatriots Abroad”. Our goal as we see it is to render them government support and provide them with legal assistance. By the way, we have recently published a list of lawyers on our website. Compatriots who require legal assistance can visit the page of the Consular Department and look who they can address to.

There are in total more than 500 compatriot organisations in the Netherlands – cultural, educational, sports. The Dutch Council of the Russian Compatriots is active. In November there was the X Review and Election Conference of the Council, where more than a hundred people were present. Our trade representative A.Cherevko and me welcomed the participants, awarded honorary certificates and certificates of passing the Russian as a foreign language examination, spoke about our vision of the relations between our countries and the agenda of these relations. Certain plans of promoting the Russian language and culture were developed.

We expect our compatriots to be active in the economic cooperation. They live here, they know the details, so who else can better assist with establishing contacts with business people and participate in business projects. I have the pleasure to see that our compatriots work in a whole number of companies on the Russian track; they do important jobs, and we are eager to promote this kind of their participation.

Generally, everything that is done by compatriots deserves all possible praise. Their participation in the Victory Day and the Day of Russia celebrations is to be noted. There are also such cultural events as the “Russian Guitar” festival in Amsterdam and the autumn Embassy Festival in the Hague, where compatriots have always helped to represent Russia.

There are a lot of events organised in the “Hermitage Amsterdam”, the central of them being the “Winter Nights on the Amstel” festival that has already become a good tradition. These are classical music concerts that are always a success. Besides, our sculptor A.Taratynov has created the “Artland” Cultural Centre in the Castle of Strijthagen, the Limburg Province.

In our turn, we try not to forget about our compatriots when large scale events are organised. For example, representatives of our diaspora participated in a youth meeting “The Historic Memory” in the city of Sofia. Our diaspora was also present at the World Forum “In Unity with Russia” in Moscow. 10 children from the Netherlands competed in the Junior World Compatriot Games in Sochi. This year we are expecting 30 children from the Netherlands at the World Youth Festival in Sochi between 14-22 October.

Our compatriots help us to create the true image of our country. Through their communication with the local citizens our compatriots restore the normal picture of what is really going on in Russia and demonstrate that the Russians are normal and civilised people.

- At the opening of the “Winter Nights on the Amstel” festival you said that culture and music are the envoys of peace. How do you see the prospects of developing cultural ties between our countries?

- Indeed, at the opening of the “Winter Nights on the Amstel” festival I said that culture is an envoy of peace. I recalled that at the very peak of the cold war an American pianist H.L. Van Cliburn caused a furore and won the International Tchaikovsky Piano Competition. And nowadays events of this kind defuse the tense atmosphere in the world as well.

We continue our cultural cooperation. Last year a very interesting exhibition was organised in the Het Loo Palace, which was dedicated to the 200th anniversary of the wedding ceremony of the Grand Duchess Anna Pavlovna with the Prince of Orange; there was also an exhibition “Catherine the Great” in the “Hermitage Amsterdam”. Here in the Embassy we organised a concert of the Rachmaninoff String Quartet from Sochi. Besides, there is an annual V.Gergiyev festival in Rotterdam.

A wonderful exhibition dedicated to the last Russian Emperor Nicholas II and his family has just opened in the “Hermitage Amsterdam” museum. I visited the opening and was especially impressed by the speech of the Deputy Mayor of Amsterdam Ms. K.Ollongren, who told the audience that her great-grandfather had been a childhood friend of Emperor Nicholas II. They played together and were very close. Then Ollongren became an officer in the Russian Imperial Guard and after the Revolution their family had to emigrate and settled here in the Netherlands.

This year we are to celebrate another glorious date – 300 years since the second visit of Emperor Peter the Great to the Netherlands.

A large number of people from various layers of the Dutch society come to these events. Naturally, it helps to create a positive image of Russia and a good reputation of our country.

But here I have to mention such an unpleasant moment as the decision of the Amsterdam District Court about the “Scythian Gold” collection, comprising 2000 artefacts. One of the main principles of museum cooperation has been cast to oblivion, namely – exhibits should return to the museums that provided them. There is also an important notion of the integrity and the ownership of the collection. The artefacts were found in the Crimea, that is the place of provenance of the Scythian gold. So it is to the Crimea that everything should be returned. Unfortunately, so far it has not happened. I can only repeat the assessment of the Russian Minister of Culture V.Medinsky, who qualified this decision as a deeply engaged and legally absurd one, violating the principles of museum exchange.

- What impressed you most of all when you came to the Netherlands? What was the most difficult and the most delightful for you here?

- I was very impressed with the foreign language abilities of the Dutch. No matter whom we meet here: people of different ages, the elderly people, the young ones, saying nothing of the middle-aged, when they understand that they are speaking to a foreigner, they instantly switch to English without any problem. So one feels no discomfort here, which is actually true for all the corners of the Netherlands.

The Dutch are very friendly, welcoming and hardworking people. It is a nation of sports. The old and the young do sport here. A bicycle seems to be the principal means of transport. From time to time, however, it can be scary when a young woman is riding a bicycle with a box in front (so called “bakfiets”), where six or seven children are sitting, all of them without helmets, which in our thinking should not be done – the cyclists and the children should be wearing helmets. But here cyclists have an absolute priority and, fortunately, car drivers proceed from that premise.

- Do you ride a bicycle?

- I am going to buy a bicycle and I am planning to cycle to my work just like many Dutch colleagues, given that the distance is short here. I will be mixing business and pleasure. (Laughing).

Then, an extraordinary solidarity of the Dutch stands out. I felt and shared this very special sense of unity on the first day of the New Year when a traditional swim takes place here, at the beach in Scheveningen. Everyone puts on orange swimming caps and in spite of the piercing wind and the low temperature take a brave plunge into the water. It is impressive. We are glad to have such good and kind feelings at this people-to-people level. We hope that the friendship between our countries will grow only stronger with time. 


Interview was conducted by Inessa Filatova

Translated by http://netherlands.mid.ru/

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